School Manager, School of Physical and Chemical Sciences

I think it's important not to get too comfortable where you are, and to understand there are other roles out there. Often, people think they have to leave Queen Mary in order to progress. Sometimes you might have to leave your department, but you don't necessarily have to leave the University.

Tell us about your career path.

I started in Queen Mary in September 2008, as a Governance Administrator in the Council Secretariat. My manager sent me on various training courses, signed me up to the Association of University Administrators, and acted as an informal mentor for me.  He was fantastic in seeing my potential and helping me to shape my career.

He also made it clear that I needed experience of student-facing roles to progress within the university. He helped to get me shadowing opportunities. My next role was in the School of Business and Management (SBM) as a Programme Administrator; that was a sideways move for me, but it gave me that exposure.  Within a year, I moved up to Programme Manager.

Working in SBM showed me that I really wanted to work with students to enhance their experience. At my level at that time, it was clear what the issues were, but I couldn’t implement solutions. I needed to become a more senior manager to really help out.

Around that time, I went on to the Women Into Leadership programme.  That was fantastic.  It opened my eyes to how many struggles other women share with me. Not just about being a working mother, but being a woman at work and how you're perceived and treated by men – and how to change that. So that that was an illuminating experience for me and led me to look for more opportunities for progression.

A secondment came up in the Blizard Institute. It opened me up to HR, finance, and other areas.   While I was there, I was successful in my application to the Aurora programme – again, life-changing. I will always say to any woman that if you can get on Aurora: do it.

Now I'm School Manager in the School of Physical and Chemical Sciences.  For me, Queen Mary has been absolutely fantastic – I’m a Queen Mary advocate through and through.

What else have you encountered during your career journey that has helped you progress?

I was fortunate in that I had some managers early in my career here who were very supportive of my career development – not just in identifying roles, but in encouraging me to apply.  I definitely think the manager is important in the journey.

I have found that some people fall into management roles without training. I've been fortunate in that my undergraduate degree was Business Studies, and my master's degree was Organisational Psychology. All of that involved management. So I've got management training, but many don’t.  That impacts how they nurture their staff, how they develop their team. It is really important that managers have exposure to the right training.

Additionally, the Association of University Administrators conference that I attended early on was about all of the different roles within Higher Education. I had only been in Council Secretariat; I didn't know about any student-facing roles.  During the conference I learned about all the roles in estates, in finance, within schools.  I was like: ‘Wow, okay. There are so many other things that I could do.’ That was pivotal.

I would say to anyone working in a university: it doesn't matter where you're working, it's important that at some point you have a role that involves students, so you understand the purpose of what we're doing here. I definitely think that's the key.

Is there anything else you'd have to say in terms of the resources and support that you've accessed? You've talked about the need for good management, you've talked about the programmes you’ve attended. Anything else that you found particularly useful?

I’ve always sought courses and advice through the Organisational & Professional Development (OPD) team.  I spoke to the OPD team and they let me know that, at that time, QMUL would offer funding to study for a Masters.  I took that back to my manager and he arranged for the department to pay half; the central development budget paid for the other half.

I don't think enough people use the service. I don't know why training isn't looked at in a positive way.  It's not always for career progression. I think people need to understand that it's also just making you better in the role that you're in currently, and better as a person. That message needs to be getting out. And again, it’s your manager as well. Your manager should be encouraging those kind of conversations, especially during appraisals.

What barriers have you encountered in your career journey at QMUL, and how did you overcome them?

Definitely imposter syndrome.  I shied away from applying for roles because I thought I couldn’t go from a Grade Three straight to a Grade Five, for example, or apply for a role if I didn’t fit all the criteria.  That was the first barrier.

In one of my earlier roles, the manager that I had could have stopped my journey. It wasn't a good experience, and at one point I wanted to leave Queen Mary because of it. But I was protective of my team and wanted to make sure the situation was addressed, and I did that with help and support from my union and then HR. Ultimately, that manager left. I thought the problems I was having in that role were ‘just me’; there was a problem before me, but nobody had tackled it. For me, that was a good outcome to a hard situation.

It's been important to have networks, so to have people that can (for example) flag up roles I could apply for. That's been important. For me, it's been quite successful.

So there haven't been too many barriers. And that's why I really wanted to be part of this: to say to people, you can do it. I’ve had a lot of people say to me that they won’t apply for a role, because somebody internal is going to get it. That will sometimes be true, but it's still worth going for it, to get the interview experience and feedback. And you never know: you might go to that interview and actually shine and change their minds.

Have any colleagues people responded to your race in ways that you have been limiting or negative?

One of the things that I found was that when I walked into the room for the Aurora programme, I think I was one of four black women in there out of possibly 250 altogether.  The first thing I thought was, ‘oh my god, I shouldn't be here’ – and then thought ‘no, I should be here’. We need more black women in leadership. That programme helped me to find my voice as a black woman and helped me to see that I can really help others here.  I'm now a mentor for other staff.

When I was at the School of Business and Management, I didn't realise my colour at all. I was just one of many. Then when I got to the Whitechapel campus I noticed the difference. I had a comment from one of my team members: ‘Oh, you speak really well.’ Now, I often think I don't speak really well – I’ve got an East London twang. So I wondered what she meant by that, and then I realised she was making that comment because I'm black. That was the first thing. Then I’d be in meetings and some of the things that were said were inappropriate. They were joking, but it made it clear that some of my colleagues weren’t used to having a black person in the room.

Now, I'm lucky in that my Head of School has said several times when he introduces me that I was a fantastic candidate on the interview panels.  I’d started to feel as if I'd only been appointed to this role because Queen Mary's going for the Race Equality Charter and needs to increase black people in leadership. So maybe I'm a token. But he's been really good in helping me to appreciate that I’m here on my own merit.

People have come to me to say they feel there are barriers to their progression, because they're black, that they see their white colleagues being promoted above them when they've been here for longer. Sometimes it's not a race thing. Sometimes it’s performance. But a lot of colleagues have come to me about the problems that they've faced.

What are your plans for the next five years of your career?

I want to be successful in my new role and make an impact. Then in a few years’ time, I see myself moving on to the next role at Queen Mary. Something to do with students and the student experience at the higher level. 

I still see myself at Queen Mary. I want to ensure that we've developed our "BAME" network by that point, and ensured that it's a useful network to the university: feeding into policy and decision-making, and helping development of "BAME" staff. I'm really keen on making sure we that in place.

What do you think might be holding back colleagues in Professional Services when they pursue career development?

What I’ve found is that people get pigeonholed. So if you're a security guard, you're always going to be a security guard; if you work in Residences, you're not going to move elsewhere.  But there are examples where people have done exactly that.  Understanding what’s available can help to resolve this.

I think it's important not to get too comfortable where you are, and to understand there are other roles out there. Often, people think they have to leave Queen Mary in order to progress. Sometimes you might have to leave your department, but you don't necessarily have to leave the University.

Don’t get stuck in a rut. Queen Mary has some staff who have been in the same role for many years, and the attitude is: “We've always done it this way. We're not going to do it any differently.” That perception needs to change.

I think I'm fortunate because I've been in so many different roles.  It's almost like I’ve been in different organisations: each faculty is different, each department is different. I've had to adapt to change, and embrace change, and enjoy change.  But it's difficult to see the impact of positive change when staff won’t engage with it, and that holds us back as an organisation.

What advice would you give to others trying to develop their careers within Queen Mary?

Get a mentor, get a coach, go on the Aurora programme or something similar.  You've got to keep developing yourself.  If you haven't got opportunities for training, what can you do for yourself? What can you read? Can you use your support networks?  

Take advantage of opportunities for flexible working.  Being able to do your work when you want to, without feeling confined to ‘nine to five’, means you can take ownership of your work-life balance and have more autonomy in your role.   

Definitely understand imposter syndrome. Especially if you're a woman: read about it, find out about it. It's a real thing.

And challenge your manager a bit more.   Challenge them to support your development, but also on the decisions and plans being made: you need to be sure that what your team is doing will result in a good experience for students and staff alike.